A Funeral Fit for a Queen Podcast Episode Transcript

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Welcome to the Remembering a Life podcast. I'm your host, Holly Ignatowski. And today my guest is Tim Purvis, chairman and owner of William Purvis Funeral Directors in Edinburgh, Scotland. Tim was entrusted with the great honor of looking after the Scottish element of her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II's funeral arrangements in September of 2022. From the initial solemn days stationed at Balmoral Castle where The Queen died to the carefully managed boarding of a London bound aircraft, Tim had the honor of accompanying the queen on her final journey. Tim traveled in the hearse with Her Majesty for the seven-hour drive from Balmoral Castle to Holyrood Palace, Edinburgh, and had a role in the ceremonial movement to St. Giles Cathedral. Tim also had the honor of attending her Majesty’s State funeral in Westminster Abbey with the royal family and many world leaders. The Queen's funeral was steeped in centuries of tradition, honored her with elaborate ceremonies and paid tribute to the extraordinary life she led. I'm so looking forward to this conversation with you. Tim, thank you so much for joining me.

TIM PURVES:
Thank you for having me, me, Holly.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Let's start with a little history, a little background of your family's funeral home and how you came to be selected for the honor of Her Majesty's funeral.

TIM PURVES:
Of course. So my business is quite a long established business. I'm actually the fifth generation of my family to be running the business. So it was established in 1888 in Edinburgh, in Scotland, and for many, many years it was a very small business. We just had the one branch and looked after the local families. And really towards the end of the 20th century is when we actually started to grow the business. So now we have about 27 branches. We look after around about three and a half thousand families in a year, and we have about 120 staff, something like that, as to how we came to be selected for the honor. Well, really it was a case that a number of years ago, about 20 years ago. So we were approached by somebody from the Lord Chamberlain's office who look after the arrangements for her Majesty, and they approached us to say, if it was to happen in Scotland, would we be willing as a company to look after the Scottish element of things? And so we took on the role really at that stage. I mean, it was one of these things you never know if you're actually ever going to be called upon, but it was one of these things that we said we'd be happy to take on. I think they were looking for a family business and a long established business. So we fitted that bill. Really.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
So this was contingent on The Queen passing in Scotland. So if had passed in London, would you have been involved at all?

TIM PURVES:
No, our element, the part that we are really involved with was really only should her death happen in Scotland. Now, Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the second, she actually spent a lot of her time in Scotland, though she used to reside more than six months a year in Scotland. It was very much seen as somewhere that she saw as a home that she enjoyed spending her time there. So to be honest, there was a high probability it could happen in Scotland because she spent more time in Scotland than anywhere else. But no, if it happened anywhere else out of Scotland, then we would not have been involved at all.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
And you mentioned that 20 years ago this process began, and so I was a big fan of The Crown and we just finished watching the whole series, and some of the final episodes were about the planning of her funeral. And who knows, maybe you were even depicted as a character, I'm not really sure, but talk about that. Talk about the planning of Her Majesty's funeral, a royal family member. What kind of planning took place and how long had you been involved in that process?

TIM PURVES:
So as I say, we as a company have been involved for 20-plus years. I personally have been involved for about 15 years or so. But yes, I mean we were involved in quite a bit of the elements. We would have lots of meetings that would take place. So occasionally I would have to go down to Buckingham Palace for meetings or in Scotland we would hold meetings at Holyrood Palace. But I would also have many meetings and rehearsals with the police Scotland and with the Army, with the bearer party. So we would have all sorts of rehearsals that happened in the early days, it was all fairly, we didn't have a huge planning brief note about all the elements, but towards the end, the number of rehearsals would increase and also the planning note increased as well. The planning note had all sorts of level of detail and depending on where Her Majesty would die.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
You talk about rehearsals. So you actually went through the motions of if she passed at the castle or anywhere in Scotland, what the procedure would be?

TIM PURVES:
To a level. I mean some of that, we didn't go into that level of detail, but we certainly had rehearsals at St. Gile’s Cathedral, for example, with the bearer party, and they would rehearse carrying Her Majesty into the church. And we had meetings at various locations with the Army and with the police just covering our bases on different scenarios on things that could potentially happen and how we would deal with that.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
And in terms of the planning, how involved was The Queen in planning the ceremonies in the events for her own funeral?

TIM PURVES:
I never met Her Majesty when she was alive, but I'm led to believe that she was very much involved in all the detail. And I think nothing that happened would've happened without her really saying that that is how it is to happen. So she was very involved. She certainly had oversight of everything, and her wishes were really taken into account. And what happened was what her wish was.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Tell us how you learned about The Queen's death.

TIM PURVES:
So I mentioned earlier that we liaise with the Lord Chamberlain's office. And so at the time I received a phone call to say that Her Majesty was not very well and just to be prepared. And then later on that day, we received a phone call to say that she had passed away and asked if we could make our way up to Balmoral.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
So can you take us through that process? You hear about this and then you go to the castle and what happens from there?

TIM PURVES:
So myself and a colleague, we left immediately the day that she died, and we actually headed up to Balmoral Castle where we were stationed up there. And really the day she passed away, we arrived up that night, but it was really the next day that we dealt with things. So later on that day, then we obviously looked after Her Majesty, and then some more of my colleagues arrived later on that day. They brought the hearses up too, so we always have to have two hearses that travel in the convoy. And so we brought two hearses up really. We have the main hearse and we also have a reserve hearse as well. And so they arrived up at Balmoral and we really just looked after the practical things up there. And amongst that, there were rehearsals and everything that happened as well. It was a very strange experience being at Balmoral though, because the atmosphere was very different to what we were used to when we're dealing with the Royal Family.

There was no press at all, and it was very sort of peaceful and calm, and really the Royal Family were there. And what really struck me was that they are just a normal family who are going through a bereavement. Yes, they're the Royal Family, and yes, they command that respect, but it was apparent to me that they are just a normal family who are going through a bereavement. But I could see why they enjoyed spending time up at Balmoral because throughout the years, because everything is very peaceful and it's very calm, and as I say, there wasn't the press and involvement in things, it was all very peaceful up there.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
That brings up a good question of you handle funerals all the time. The whole world was watching this funeral. This was for a, quote, celebrity and very high status individual. How was that different from most of the funerals that you are a part of, or how was it the same?

TIM PURVES:
Well, I've already mentioned that it really struck me that the Royal Family are just a normal family who are going through a bereavement. And that really struck me. They are still relying on us and our skills to look after things and do the necessary. The other thing though that probably I should explain is when we were at Balmoral, we were very busy up there. And bear in mind, I arrived up there the day that she passed away. And so I never saw any of the press coverage. I never saw any television or anything like that. And so everything that everybody else saw, and I never actually saw that. And so on one level actually, that set us up in quite good stead because it meant that we were there without all the hype and all the publicity and the press and everything like that. And just being there in Balmoral, as I've already said, it was very peaceful and calm and quiet, and it just meant that we were able to go about our normal duty. Now, as I've already said, yes, they are the Royal family and they do command a level of respect, and we gave them that. But as I say, they are just a normal family going through bereavement on the other hand as well.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Right. And after you arrived at Balmoral Castle, what happened from there? Where did you go from there? What were the events that took place?

TIM PURVES:
Well, obviously we stayed on site at Balmoral, and so we were in another building on the estate. We obviously looked after Her Majesty, and then we had lots of rehearsals and things that took place. We were guiding various people on different matters as well. Then we were really just rehearsing and preparing ourselves for the journey that we were going to be making from Balmoral down to Edinburgh. And that journey is a long journey. It would normally take about three hours or so, but the day that we did it took us about seven hours. So it's a long journey, and we were really just preparing for that.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
And why did it take so much longer?

TIM PURVES:
Because of the route that we took. We went through all the different cities on our way down. So we went through Aberdeen, first of all, and then through Dundee, and then we made our way down to Edinburgh. But we also went at quite a slow pace. I mean, one of the things that I'm led to believe that Her Majesty had her input into is that she was very keen that we would make this journey from Balmoral down to Edinburgh should she pass at Balmoral, because she would see it as a way of uniting the United Kingdom on one level, because here was this procession making its way down through the whole of Scotland, really. And the reason it took so long was because we took our time and in all the cities, there were huge crowds of people who wanted to see Her Majesty as we came past. So that was factored into there as we were making our way down.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Once you got to Edinburgh, was your role in the funeral done?

TIM PURVES:
I was involved in all the elements while we were here in Edinburgh. What happened was on Sunday, the 11th of September, 2022, that was the day that we actually left Balmoral and made our way down to Edinburgh. So that was the long journey, and we arrived at Holyrood Palace and really Her Majesty then lay there overnight for the family to spend time with Her Majesty. And then the next day on the Monday, we then went back to Holyrood Palace and we actually took Her Majesty from Holyrood Palace up to St. Gile's Cathedral. Now, I don't know if many people listening to this will have been to Edinburgh or know the land, but really Holyrood Palace is at one end and the castle is at the other end, and the road that leads between the two of them is called the Royal Mile or the High Street. And St. John's Cathedral is at the top end of the Royal Mile, quite close to the castle. So we left and made our ceremonial procession from Holyrood Palace up to St. Gile's Cathedral. So just under a mile, we traveled up there at a very slow pace. There was the archers and the bear party. They marched with the hearse making its way up The King and his siblings, they walked behind. And Royal Mile is an old street in Edinburgh, and it's not a very wide street. So as we made our way up there, we were very close to the members of the public, and there were thousands and thousands of people lining the streets as we made our way up there. The one thing that really struck me though was just how quiet it was. Although we were making our way up and there was thousands of people lining the streets, I could hear the footsteps of the bear party and the archers as they marched at the side of the hearse, and we made our way up.

And then when we arrived at St. Charles' Cathedral, Her Majesty was then taken then to St. Gile's Cathedral, and that's where she lay in state for 24 hours for the people of Scotland to be able to pay their respects to Her Majesty. And so she laid there for that 24-hour period, and there were huge cues of members of the public who could then line up and actually pay their respects to Her Majesty there. And then what happened was the next day, so now we're onto the Tuesday, that was when we then went back to St. Gile's Cathedral and we made our way out to Edinburgh Airport where we met an airplane there, and they flew Her Majesty down to London. And really, once Her Majesty left Edinburgh and made her way down to London, that was really when my working official role came to an end at that stage. Interestingly, after the airplane left at Edinburgh airport, we had to wait for an extra half hour after the plane left. And I wasn't prepared for that. It wasn't an issue, but I hadn't realized we were going to have to do that. And of course, when you think about it, it makes sense. Should the airplane come into any difficulty and have to come back to Edinburgh, we needed to be there to still be there, should Her Majesty have to come back. So after the plane left, we were there for an extra 30 minutes, and then we were told we can now and leave from there. The other thing that really struck me on all the ceremonial journeys that we did was just how emotional it was. I wasn't really prepared for that, I'll be honest. I was sitting in the hearse and as we made our way, just seeing the crowds of people and the emotional side from people who were paying their respects, as we drove past there, there were ladies, curtsying there were men saluting. There were people holding up huge banners, just saying, thank you, Ma’am, for everything you've done. And I really wasn't prepared for that. And it really struck me just how emotional the journey was as well. I mean, there was a real outpouring from the public towards Her Majesty.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
She was well loved. She definitely touched so many lives and was the longest reigning monarch in the world, correct? In history.

TIM PURVES:
Yes, yes. Certainly the British monarch ever. I'm not sure if there's been other countries that have had longer monarchs, but certainly in the British history, yes.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Can you tell us about some of The Queen's requests? Can you share some of the special touches or meaningful aspects that she talked about or requested for her service?

TIM PURVES:
Well, as I say, everything that we saw had her hand over it. Everything that was seen, her majesty had actually put that into place. So the journey down from Balmoral down to Edinburgh, that was something that she wanted to have happen. She saw it as a way of uniting the United Kingdom. Again, I don't know how much of your listeners will know about Scotland, but there's been a referendum back in 2014 where some people in Scotland would like to separate from the rest of the United Kingdom, and I'm sure that probably grieved Majesty in one level. And so that sort of thing, by having the journey connecting the whole of Scotland and then Her Majesty lying in state in Edinburgh for that period, all of that was certainly something that was seen by everybody as this was something that Her Majesty had had an input into and making sure that it just was really seen as a way of uniting the United Kingdom.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Right, uniting the country even after her death. Amazing. Yes, yes. Tim, did you actually attend the funeral at Westminster Abbey?

TIM PURVES:
I did. I did. So I received, after Her Majesty had left Edinburgh and had traveled back down to London, I received a phone call to invite me to attend the funeral service at Westminster Abbey, which was on Monday the 19th of September, 2022. And so obviously I was delighted to receive that honor. So yes, I attended there, and that was a very emotional experience as well, to be in a building with, there was 2,000 people attending there, but really the world leaders and just the people who were there, it wasn't lost on this is an occasion that is probably never going to be repeated to have all these different world leaders, your own leader and President Biden was there, and at one stage he actually walked right past me as well. And to be there and to see everybody as they arrived, it really just struck me that this is a moment in history, a moment in time that I'm not sure if we'll ever see that repeated. So it was a real honor to be involved in that as well. Thankfully, I wasn't playing any role. I was literally just there attending,

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
And I remember watching it right here in the Midwest, in the United States. And one thing that obviously struck many people in speaking of emotional was the bagpipes toward the end of this ceremony. Now, is that something that The Queen specifically picked or is that something that would happen in a ceremonial royal funeral anyway?

TIM PURVES:
I'm not sure. I can't actually answer that and say whether that was something that she specifically requested. I would imagine she certainly would've wanted that to happen. It wouldn't have happened without her asking for that. I mean, in England, it's unusual for the bagpipes to be played that is very much a Scottish thing. So in London, it would be unusual for the bagpipes to be played. So I can only assume that it was something that she herself actually requested and said that she wanted that to play a part. Again, she, her heart lay in Scotland. She was here a lot of her life. She spent a lot of time up here, and she loved Scotland. So I think that element was also just coming through in the funeral service as well.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Most of us will, none will ever have a funeral as elaborate as The Queen, and our lives aren't quite as extraordinary as hers. But Tim, why is it important for us to honor our loved ones with a ceremony after they die? Oftentimes I'll hear people will say, oh, I'm not going to have a funeral, or I didn't go to church. I don't need to have a funeral. But who's that funeral for and why is it important?

TIM PURVES:
It's a good question then. And we get exactly the same thing over here in Scotland. We have a lot of people request these days what are called direct cremations, where there is no funeral service at all. And my big concern about that is when we think about why we have a funeral service, the reason we have a funeral service is not actually for the person who has passed away. It's generally for everybody else so that they can remember the life of the person who has died. And I think by taking that element away, my big concern is that we are going to be causing potential issues in the future where people have not been able to grieve properly. There is something in the human psyche where we have to grieve for somebody when they pass away. And the way that we grieve is remembering their life and remembering the impact they've had on us and remembering the impact that they've had on other people as well.

And that's why we have a funeral service. That's why people will say a tribute and will have different people doing that on one level. It is not for the person who's actually died. It is very much for everybody else who's left behind. So often, as I say, when we have questions that are asked about that, about whether we should have a funeral service or not, my strong thought would always be, look, just remember the reason we're having a funeral service is really for those that are left behind in Scotland. There's been a push towards this particularly. And some people see it as a way of saving money if there's not the money to have a funeral service, that this is a way of saving the money. But my slight concern about that is that we're storing up more problems for people in the future where people have not been able to grieve.

I mean, we saw during COVID, I don't know what it was like in the United States, but certainly in Scotland, funerals were limited, hugely limited. At one stage, we were allowed five people at a funeral service. And the outpouring of grief from people being told they could not attend a funeral service was really quite considerable. And we learned that from that time that our funeral service is something that is very, very important. And so funerals were actually one of the things that opened up a bit quicker than other things in society to allow people to be able to attend. And so as I say, I do think it's very important that we have funeral services for people. It's a way of honoring somebody. It's a way of remembering their life. It's a way of remembering what they did for us as well, as well as other people.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
We did experience that in the United States as well. They were very limited to the point where Zoom came in, right, zoom or some kind of teleconferencing so that people could still feel a part of the funeral service even if they didn't want to attend it physically. And that continues today as well. And maybe that's a good thing because the traditional funeral that we all think of funerals can be very personalized. They don't have to look, it's not a one size fits all. So have you found that you've had to maybe adapt funeral services to make them more appealing to people or to more accommodate people for their wishes for their loved ones?

TIM PURVES:
Yes. The point that you've made, there's something that we've noticed dramatically as well. I mean, we've been talking there about the funeral for Her Majesty and about her personal, that was, she had her input and her fingerprints were all over every element really of what happened for her funeral service. And we're finding the same, I mean, I mentioned that my business was established in 1888, and for over a hundred years, funerals probably didn't really change. It was very much the same service that took place in the church and then went on to the cemetery for a burial. And often in the church, they sang the same two hymns as well. What we've noticed in the last 30 years, particularly in the last 20 years, is just how things have changed and people want it to become a personalized service. So the requests that we get have changed dramatically from, we now have visual tributes.

We've had funeral service that have been taken over Zoom, the person who's actually taking the funeral services in the building with everybody else. And we mentioned there about how live streaming of funerals has changed really as a result of COVID. And that is very much true. It was certainly something that we could have done before COVID, but not very many people took up that option. And I think that was one thing that came from COVID that's been actually very, very useful, that a high proportion of our funerals now still are live streamed. And then it allows somebody who maybe is in another country or who is certainly a long, long way away, rather than having the stress of having to travel to attend a funeral service, it allows them to still be part of the funeral service without actually physically having to be there. And a lot of our funerals that are live streamed, they're held for 28 days.

So anybody can go back over that 28-day period and watch it. So for example, if the funeral was to happen in Scotland and there was a relative that lived in the United States or in Australia where they're on a different time zone, rather than them having to get up in the middle of the night to watch this funeral service, they can watch it at 11 o'clock the next morning their time, and they still feel part of that funeral service. So I think that's right. Things have changed dramatically. A lot of the things that have changed have been very much for the good, and I suppose that's what life is about. It all evolves and how we do things evolve. As I said, I think having a funeral service is very important. I think the personalization is something that's actually very, very good, and it's something that we encourage.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Tim, you mentioned that your family business was established in 1888. So was it written in stone? Did you always know you were going to be a funeral director

TIM PURVES:
No, actually my father, I don't have any brothers. I have three sisters, and none of them came into the business at all. My father did the exact opposite. He said to me in the future, you can always come into this business if you would like to. However, when you finish school, you are not just coming straight into this business. And he also told me that he would like me to go off and try other things. And I think he realized that there would be nothing worse than after 15 years of coming straight into a family business, regretting it and wishing that I'd tried something different. But also by doing something different, you learn other skills that you can bring into the family business as well. My dad always said, look, there's no pressure. If you don't come into this business, that's absolutely fine as well.

But if you do want to come into this, then that's great, but you go off and do something else first. I have three children. My eldest is coming up for 20, and then I have a 17-year-old son, a 20-year-old daughter, 17-year-old son, and a 13-year-old daughter. I have no idea if any of them or all of them will come into the family business, but I would very much do the same with them and say to them, they'd always be welcome to come in. However, they're not to come straight in from school or even just straight from university, go off and get some other life experience and then decide, is this what you really want to do? We all know working in this profession, it's a vocation. It's not something that you just take lightly. It doesn't finish at five o'clock in the evening and start again at nine o'clock the next morning. So it's something that we have to think about and is this what we really want to do? And that's what I would say to my children as well, if they want to come in it, there's always a place there, but they must go off and try other things first and make sure that it's what they really want to do.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Great advice. Tim, we ask all of our guests this question. Who are you remembering today?

TIM PURVES:
I'm a committed Christian, and we have a church here in Edinburgh that I'm a member of. I'm one of the elders in the church. And just at the start of this year, a gentleman who was one of the elders a few years ago, he actually died at the start of this year and just at the start of January. And he is someone who touched so many people's life in our church. He used to meet up with lots and lots of people, lots of men. He would meet up with students, he met up with younger men, he met up with older men. And really the impact that he had on so many people's life actually almost came out far more after he passed away. And really, it just struck so many people in the church, just the difference that he made by that input that he put into so many people's lives. And so, to be honest, he is someone who I'm really remembering today. His name's Barry, Barry Sprott, and as I say, he passed away at the start of this year. But it was really just the impact that he had on my life, but on so many other people's life. And it really just has challenged me to think about the input I have on other people's lives as well.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
And how would you like to be remembered, Tim?

TIM PURVES:
Well, like I've mentioned about my friend Barry, just the input he had onto other people in life. Often if you ask somebody who was your favorite boss, they'll name who their favorite boss was in their work. And if you say to them, and why were they your favorite boss, usually the answer is because they gave me time. They spent time with me. And I think that's just been a real challenge to me to think about. I've mentioned at the start, I have 120 staff here. Who in my business am I inputing and giving time to who at my church? Am I doing that? And so I suppose that's really been a challenge to me, and that is something that I would like to be remembered for, hopefully by doing a bit more of that.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Well, thank you for giving us your time today, Tim. This was a very insightful discussion, insights into an historic event that we in the United States are probably never going to experience anything like that. So thank you for sharing that for information about The Queen and your experiences.

TIM PURVES:
Thank you very much, Holly, and thank you very much for inviting me, and thank you for having me.

HOLLY IGNATOWSKI:
Most of you listening today are not royalty. However, all of us live lives that deserve to be honored and remembered. For more information about remembering loved ones in meaningful ways, visit rememberingalife.com.